Friday, October 26, 2007

deep thoughts part 2

So my chica and I were spurred into a conversation when I was reading a few of your blogs and she saw an icon for Mom's For Modesty. While I REALLY don't like the word modesty (my mind takes it to some drastic places where girls aren't allowed to swim because it isn't "modest") we discovered that I am a teensy bit more careful about modesty than even she (who was stoked when she saw the icon while I tried not to cringe).

The conversation progressed into my chica pointing out how a large majority of teenage girls apparel promotes sex (or lustful thoughts) and shouldn't be worn because it might make the guys around them think thoughts. My argument to this was what I want your opinion on. Can teenage girls, whom I believe have NO IDEA what they're promoting when they wear tight/revealing clothing, be held accountable for their actions?

How can I simplify this idea??

If one doesn't know better, can they be held responsible for an action that they took?

Another example:
I was listening to a broadcast on NPR today and they were discussing the conditions in Chinese factories. The list of importers that buy goods from factories is SO LONG that I am convinced that there's hardly anything within my home that hasn't been through a factory in a third world country where workers arms get chopped off by the machinery daily. If I bought these goods without knowing the conditions from which they came, can I be held responsible for being a part of this chain that propagates itself?

I hope that I'm being clear.

I just wonder if our motive is pure when we act, can we be held responsible for the reactions to that action?

Shoot, I've got some diamonds on my wedding ring that very well could have propagated the war in Liberia where my own children are from!?! But I didn't know better at the time. Ya with me?


Anonymous said...

Hmmm. This one is going to take some thought. I will have to think about it and arrange my thoughts. The only thing I would say though is that I think ,sadly enough, many teenage girls are perfectly aware of what their clothing is promoting, but even at this I don't think they are resposible for the actions of the boys around them. The girls have the choice to where the clothing(unless of course the parents choose), and the boys have the choice to react in several different ways. I do believe people(even teenage boys!), can control their thoughts as well as their actions, but it takes practice/training/dedication. I am not saying I would allow my daughter to wear certain clothing(certain clothing my 5th graders wear!), but that doesn't mean girls are responsible for the boys' behavior. But that was probably the easy part to answer(even though there are probably plenty that would disagree with my answer-this part ofthe questionn was easier for me to answer than the larger "are we responsible for anything we had ANY part in..even if it wasunknown to us at the time". I will have to get back to you on that!

Anonymous said...

Deep thoughts Rach, which we have talked about extensively. I agree that some teenage girls may not truly "get it" about what their lack of clothing does to the male species, but since we are the moms I think it's our job to make sure they are educated on this subject early on and are clothed appropriately. Three cheers for Moms for Modesty!!! (just had to say it since I know the word bugs ya!)

Your bigger question is tough though (phonics IS hard isn't it? "ough" can say f like in tough and o like in though.....) I am thinking specifically of times I choose to be ignorant and not educate myself on where each and every item comes from. Let's face it, we usually buy what is convenient and cheap. (or convenient and expensive like Starbucks....) This leads me down that other rabbit trail I guilty of contributing to global economic inequality because I buy cute shoes and make-up and I know full well there are people who can't buy food all over the place? Surely adopting a few orphans doesn't absolve me of any responsibilty to the millions of others? Thoughts dear Rachel?

Love, Jenny

Aly Cat 121 said...

I think the teen-age girls are innocent and were it not for them being DIRECTLY marketed to (i.e. advertising thru t.v., radio, internet, etc) then they probably would have no interest in that kinda stuff. (that goes for us too with the "made in china" household - cuz I buy loads of sh*t I don't need cuz of a commercial)

But my concern wouldn't be an innocent girl. Nooo. Mine would be the old azz men who KNOW better and KNOW they know better who LUST after young girls. Why do the men always get to get off the hook and the girls are the "original sinners"? I mean really. Who designs all the dayum clothes we were? Who makes the shoes? Most are MEN.

So we want our girls to look a certain way, then we need to have a lil chat with the men. Cuz obviously they need to get their mind right.

Aly Cat 121 said...

ohhh and because we ALL live in the Matrix, we do sh*t cuz we BELIEVE that we chosen, but we really ain't. The decision has already been made for us. If we really want to "free" the world we'd have to start by "freeing" ourselves.

Okay, who wants the trash the new laptop computer and throw out that new flatscreen tv? *chuckle*

Tabitha said...

hummm...that is like the question, what comes first the chicken or the egg. Or is it? Anyways....As a momma to a 13 year old boy, inside I cringe when I see the tight, tight, low cut stuff that other 13 year old girls are wearing. I cringe for my son. I remember this summer when we went swimming with a family, and their stunningly gorgeous daughter came in a bikini. Having sons first(before my daughter reaches teenage hood) I know already what will and won't fly at our house as far a clothes for my daughter goes. Cause, lets face it, boys are sexual beings. They have a hard enough job anyway(at holding themselves in check) to add a super hot, fully developed 13 year old girl in a bikini to the mix.
LOVE(!!!!!) this discussion. Thanks, Raquel.....

Rebekah said...

My question is "Where are the parents?" MTV and the glorification of Paris, Lindsay, and Brittany dont help matters, but serioulsy, where are the parents??
I dont think teenage girls are innocnet, not in todays society, not with all these reality tv shows slathered with sexual innuendo, scantily clad girls and drooling boys.
Women desire to know they are desirable, and these girls know that guys will look at them if they dress provocatively. No, the boys should still not cross the line.... Again, I have to ask, where are the parents??
My sister put out an interesting post a few days ago similar to this topic.

Rebekah said...

There, maybe this link will let you just click on it

Anonymous said...

So I have been thinking more about the larger picture of what we are responsible for. I think we are responsible for being as educated as we can be. Being aware of what is going on in the world. Being aware of what role we play in terms of what is going on in the world around us. Can we know everything? No. Should we do our best anyway? Absolutely. Can we(me included of course) do better in terms of learning about our own world impact? Yes. Does that me every diamond owner is personally responsible for the war in Liberia even if they were unaware of it at the time? I don't believe so. But I do believe that once someone has that knowledge going out and buying a diamond anyway does put them at fault. Is it harder to shop with this kind of knowledge? Definitely. But as humans I fully believe we are responsible to one another, to people we never have, and never will meet, we are responsible to make the tough choice, to say no, even when it is harder. On another note, I want to say that I think people tend to pass blame on someone else(me included), rather than take responsibility. It's not the boys' fault, it's the girl's fault, it's not the girl's fault, it's the commercials fault, etc, etc. Obviously it's a complex issue, but at some point people have to take responsibility for themselves. People can watch commercials, and not buy something. But I do agree that the parents need to step up, and that they need to take ultimate responsibilty for their children. Who is giving the 13 yr old to go buy whatever they want? The parent! They need to stop and think. One of my 10 yr olds wore a shirt to school on Friday that said "I'm a naughty girl" What parent in their right mind would allow their little girl to buy/wear such a thing? Ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Oops, I forgot to sign my name on my last comment.

Dancer said...

For me modesty is more about how you represent yourself and how you teach your children (girls and boys) to represent themselves. It's true that I don't want the way I dress to be the reason someone hits on me. I think we should take responsibility for our own actions but at the same time consider how it will affect someone else.

And I really find it hard to believe that young girls don't know how they are dressing. There is some type of reinforcement they receive in the form of a lingering stare, more blatant attention, etc.

I have a moms of modesty icon up. And proudly. Part of the purpose of the "group" is to advocate clothing stores having more options for toddlers-teenagers that aren't just smaller versions of adult hoochie clothes. And to support stores that sell clothing that is fashionable yet does not suggest. The group supports an overall idea of taking responsibility for yourself and your girls. If we do that, the rest is up to the men because we can't control their thoughts and some will still act regardless of what you have on.

I have a post I wrote a while ago about what modesty is to me.

The Beast Mom said...

I think lots of clothing for even much younger age brackets is too "adult" looking. But I tend to be lean more conservative now that I'm a mother of a daughter! When I was a teenager, I wanted the latest/greatest fashions too. I think it's somewhat inevitable that girls will want some of that stuff. I don't purely blame stores/marketing/parents/culture/etc. Teenage girls know what they're doing to some degree although not fully, some of them.

I DO have a huge problem with adult styled clothing being thrown at truly LITTLE/YOUNG girls however. They DON'T know the effects at ALL. This to me IS a problem of the adults in their lives, not so much them.


Euphoria said...

where you at girl!?! Hope you are well